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Permalink Reply by Fur&FeathersDVM on July 24, 2014 at 9:05pm

Hi there! My husband is a SWO who graduated OCS about five years ago. Back then, SWOS was still in Rhode Island for SWO's, and they did a beginners course after graduation and then an advanced course right before qualifying as a SWO. I'm guessing this is what you might be hearing about/reading out, but it isn't how SWOs are handled anymore.  Now SWOs go to one class called Basic Division Officer Course, aka "BDOC". It's about 7-8 weeks long and it's taught in San Diego, CA and Norfolk, VA. Since it is less than 180 days long, families are not written on their orders to accompany them. However, if your husband is stationed at either of these locations, you will already be there and can spend the time with him. Officers are not required to live in barracks and he would be able to live with you.  However, for example, if his ship is in Japan, the navy is not going to pay for you to go and stay with him at BDOC in San Diego- they will just move you from wherever home is right to Japan. Hopefully that makes sense!  His individual situation will dictate where/when you move, and it will all be explained to him once he goes through ship selection at OCS!

My biggest piece of advice is with the navy- have a plan A, a plan B, and a plan C- especially as a SWO. They spend a lot of time on sea duty and it makes for a crazy life! Things are always changing and as much as you try to plan, you just have to be ready with lots of backup plans. My whole life I have been a planner and the last five and a half years of navy life have definitely helped me to learn how to be flexible. :) I would be happy to try to help you with any other questions you might have about SWO life or OCS (athough as I mentioned, it has been quite awhile since my husband went through OCS!)

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Permalink Reply by lilmac2013 on July 25, 2014 at 9:03am

Thank you so much for your insight. I know I have been pulling my hair out trying to figure out how things may turn out. I know that one of my biggest challenges will be learning how to be more flexible. Will my husband be able to choose which BDOC location he is able to go to? I know my husband is not keen on being away from myself or our daughter for too long, and we live on the East coast so Norfolk would most likely be his first choice. Are there specific stations that SWO can only choose from initially or is there no real limitation? You mentioned your husband being on Sea Duty a lot, does this mean only being out at sea or on ship while stationed at port? Do you work or are you a stay at home parent? Do you live on base or did you decide to live off base? Any advice/information on any of this would be greatly appreciated. I am sorry for so many questions. Thank you again for your assistance.

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Permalink Reply by Fur&FeathersDVM on July 27, 2014 at 9:59pm

You go to BDOC wherever is most convenient to your duty station, not where you’d like to go. Generally that means East Coast/European stations go to Norfolk, West Coast/Hawaii/Japan go to San Diego. The Navy has to keep costs reasonable so whatever will give them the least amount of travel costs is what they will do.

SWO's do two back to back sea tours when they finish OCS for a total of about 4 years of sea duty (often times it ends up being longer.) That means being stationed somewhere there is a surface ship to go on. Everything in the navy is based on needs of the navy- not necessarily your choice. You submit your preferences and the detailer does what they can to try to accommodate them, but at the end of the day, you go where the navy needs you.  At the time your husband is up for orders, there may not be any openings in one location but a ton in another, or there may be lots of openings all over.

Sea Duty essentially means being assigned to a ship. What that entails for the people assigned to that ship is that anytime that ship is out to sea, they are gone. This can be quite a bit or not too terribly much- it just depends on the ship's schedule. My husband was gone about 70% of the time on sea duty. He had friends who were gone more and who were gone less. When they are at "home", they are working LONG hours (14+ hour days are not uncommon, especially when they first try to qualify as a SWO, which takes about 1.5 to 2 years) and they have to stand duty days frequently, which means staying on the ship overnight even while in port to stand watches. How often this is varies anywhere from every 2 days to every 8 days or so. When they aren't underway, on duty, deployed, working, etc. then they get to be at home.

My husband did both of his sea tours in Norfolk, VA and now is doing what's called a shore tour at Navy boot camp in Great Lakes. We have gotten very lucky and the detailer has always been able to put us where we ask, but that is PURE luck. We have plenty of friends who have ended up at locations that weren't even on their preference list of 20+ jobs.

I am a veterinarian and work full time.  I have always been working full time and/or a full time student while my husband has been in.  I am one of those people who always needs to be busy! We don't have any kids besides furry ones :). We lived off base in Norfolk and now live in base housing in Chicago. Our decision to do on vs. off was simply what we could get for our housing allowance in each location. It's very easy to find a good place to live in a safe area in Norfolk for under housing allowance. It's nearly impossible to find a decent place to live in all aspects for even near housing allowance near Great Lakes, and the housing community here is newly built houses located on Lake Michigan within walking distance of two areas with restaurants, shops, and a train stop that goes right into downtown Chicago and up to the base. It made the choice easy. :)

I think the thing you have to remember is that in the navy, nights alone are not just limited to deployment. They include underways, duty days, training, schools, etc. For example, when my husband’s ship came home from his first deployment, even though they had just been gone for seven months, he didn't get to come home that first day the ship was home. He had duty so he couldn’t come home til the next day.   His second deployment he got to come home the day of homecoming, but then had duty the next day so he was gone overnight again, then a few days later he worked overnight from Christmas Eve to Christmas day for duty again. The ship must ALWAYS be manned, 24/7, weekends, holidays, etc. And within weeks of coming home from deployment they were off again for over a month. With decreasing numbers of ships in the navy, it's becoming more and more common for a ship to come home from a long deployment and go out again shortly thereafter for another one.  Even in years they don’t deploy, training exercises and underways make the ship gone a lot- in the years my husband wasn’t “deployed”, he was usually gone 6+ months still. And things change at the very last minute all the time. You cancel plans a lot, even the day of.

I’m not telling you these things to try to scare you, or make you think this is a terrible life.  Being married to the military is different (not necessarily easier or harder, but different) than being a military brat, or military family member. My husband and I are very happy with the military lifestyle, but it’s important to know what you are getting into. No one can tell you what your husband’s schedule will be like on a ship. Some ships end up with mechanical problems and are barely gone. Others are gone 90% of the time. You have to be able to function without him 100% of the time, because there’s never a guarantee that he’ll be there. We hate being apart but I am OK when he's gone because I am independent.  I'm busy with my job and there's not a thing he can do around the house or with the cars that I can't.

That being said, you will meet the most wonderful people through the military who will help when he can’t, you will have opportunities to move to exciting new places, and the military provides great benefits. It’s just not for everyone or for every relationship!  It’s good that you’re asking questions. It means you want to be prepared!

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Permalink Reply by Fur&FeathersDVM on July 27, 2014 at 10:07pm

PS- sorry for the VERY long reply. I just started rambling! Sorry if it doesn't make much sense in some parts either, I typed it out quickly!

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Permalink Reply by BunkerQB on July 25, 2014 at 12:37pm

lilmac2013,

Your husband should make sure in his heart and mind that being a Naval officer is what he wants to do for the next 5/6 years. Separation is a fact of life for Navy families. It is especially tough for officer aboard submarines. He can have his "dream" list but there are no guarantee on assignment of ports. Extended separation is probably the number cause of marital breakups - and there are many within the officers circles. It takes an incredibly strong woman/man to be married to someone in the military - does not matter the branch, the rank (enlisted or officer) or the rating (job). The wife/husband must be self reliant, independent, resourceful, detailed oriented, organized, tenacious, hard-working - this all on top of being a wife and mother.

My son joined the Navy right out of college. He broke up with his girlfriend over his joining. Three years later they reconnected. Together they made the decision that military life was not for them. He finished his commitment, got married and is now a happy civilian. 

You and your daughter are going to be on your own for long extended periods. The Navy community is very supportive and very, very connected. The families all help each other out. Think seriously about this before he commits himself.  Good luck.

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Permalink Reply by lilmac2013 on July 25, 2014 at 1:00pm

Thank  you for your response, I greatly appreciate it. I am aware of the uncertainty of the military and where we may end up, I come from a long line of military service members. I am also aware that my daughter and I will be spending many nights alone while he is on deployment. I am very fond of the very tight interconnected community that the military creates, I am still very close with numerous military families that I grew up with. I thank you for your advice. 

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Permalink Reply by lilmac2013 on July 28, 2014 at 9:32am

Thank you for your response. No, I like the long response because it gives me a lot of information that I would not otherwise obtain.  I am trying to be as prepared as I can be (knowing that no matter how prepared I feel, I won’t understand until it actually happens).  I understand your information to be informative and not a lecture or to be derogative, and I appreciate that. Thank you for your information on Sea Duty.  It is good to know that even if he is in dock he could be gone many days. My husband and I have been discussing that he would most likely be spending a good bit of time trying to get SWO qualified, and many other situations that would interfere with his time at home. I did not know of how once he gets home from a deployment he may also have to be spending a few days on ship right when he gets home, but this is good information to obtain. We have been discussing many ideas as to how we can make it through some of these difficult times away, do you have any suggestions? How do you and your husband manage the times away? We are aware that communication may be few and far between and that not everything we plan will be executed with precision.  

How difficult is it for you to find a new job every time you have to move? We are worried that because I don’t have a sought after skillset that it will be difficult for me to find a job every time we move. This is why we have been discussing that initially I would be a stay at home mom, and then try and go back to school.  

We have also been discussing base housing vs. off base housing, how has your experience been in getting into base housing. I have heard that it takes a very long time to get into base housing. I know that it varies from station to station. We are flexible in that we don’t really mind living off if need be, but not really sure how living on base would go, would be a first for even me (we never lived on base, my mother always wanted to live off base).

Sorry if my questions seem redundant or not significant, I just like to cover all my bases. also if you would much rather email back and forth I am also willing to do so, please just let me know if you are.

Thank you again

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Permalink Reply by Fur&FeathersDVM on August 1, 2014 at 9:00am

Yes, even while in port, your husband WILL be gone many nights. He will be gone at least once a week on duty. Sometimes the ship will do something called a ‘fast cruise’ where the ship trains as though they are at sea even though they are in port, which means no going home at night/no visiting the ship.  The whole purpose of a surface warfare officer is to command a surface ship at sea, so they really focus on getting them qualified ASAP. If your husband is initially assigned to a ship that is not going out to sea much, they will very likely send him to another ship for a temporary duty assignment so he can get enough sea time under his belt to get his SWO pin (many qualifications take place underway). That first sea tour is a tough one because they are so focused on getting qualified (and of course once they are, they start focusing on their next qualification, although normally they get that on their second sea tour.) They try to give them a work/life balance but the bottom line is the needs of the navy will always be #1 while he is in the military. You have to adjust your way of life and line of thinking that the navy will always come first practically speaking. No matter what is going on in your life, if they say he has to go, he has to go!

My husband and I focus on quality time rather than quantity. We will never have the same time that other couples have, just like any other military family, although our situation is somewhat complicated by my career. We geobached (aka my husband was stationed in one place and I lived in another) for four years so that I could complete my doctorate and be a vet. Now that I’m out of school and working, I work sixty plus hours a week and am on call every other week for after hours emergencies. My husband is on staff at boot camp, so even though he is not currently on sea duty, he works a lot, gets phone calls at night, works strange shifts, still stands duty, etc. Yes, me picking a career like this was my choice.  For us, it’s okay because it means the times we do get together are all the more precious. To this day I still cherish every single time my husband and I are able to spend together. I think that is a wonderful gift to be able to feel that way about one another. You are right- communication can be spotty while they are away and you just have to remember that he loves you, he will contact you when he can, and wherever he is, he’s thinking about you.  And communication is so much better than it used to be! Ships have access to email, not always regularly, but they do and it’s much faster than snail mail! Plans very rarely work out on sea duty so you just have to be flexible! Underways come up at the last minute, deployments get extended, etc so you learn to just live in the moment and enjoy any time you can together. We wrote letters a lot when he was gone (much more romantic than email!), and I sent care packages. We try to do little things to surprise each other and we have date nights as often as possible. We make each other videos when we’re going to be apart so when we’re feeling sad or lonely, we can watch it and remember that we are thinking of each other. Whenever my husband was deployed I sent him with tons of little handwritten notes to read when communications were down and he just wanted to hear from me. When they are at sea, they are extremely busy (it wasn’t uncommon for my husband to go 30+ hours without sleep) and that helps them keep their mind off things. I’m always busy and so while I miss him terribly, I have too much else going on in my life for my world to stop when he leaves. I am lucky enough to have wonderful friends who I can rely on for support if I need it when he’s gone.  When he misses birthdays/anniversaries/holidays (and they miss a lot, there are still holidays we haven’t spent together ever), we just celebrate them when we can. After all it’s just a date on a calendar and you can celebrate the meaning of it anytime! (And thanksgiving turkey tastes just as good in March as it does November, haha!)  And bottom line, I know that in my husband’s heart, I come first, so I don’t necessarily need him to always be there, and I can understand when he has to be away.

I have only moved twice with my husband, and both times have been able to find employment prior to moving. I do have a specific skillset, being a veterinarian, but at the same time I have had to be flexible within my field. As a student, I worked for a corporate practice- it wasn’t necessarily what I thought I would do, but I ended up enjoying it and learning a lot. Once I graduated, I worked for an animal shelter and low income clinic. Again, it wasn’t what my ultimate career goal was, but I loved every minute of it and it opened my eyes to a whole new career field that I would one day like to get back into. Now I work in a small animal and exotics hospital, which is what my plan has been from day one. Military spouses have a lot of skills that employers are looking for! We are strong, quick learners, adaptable, independent, etc.

Waits for base housing really does vary a lot by duty station. Some places have no waits, some places have a year plus wait. Some housing locations have small houses in a not so great area and you can do better for your money off base. Others, like where we are now, have more amenities in a better location than what your housing allowance would get you off base. We were told a 3-6 months wait for our house here, but we could get on the list 3 months prior to arrival (not the case in most places). Two months into our wait we were offered our house. I know other people who have waited much longer than the guestimated wait. Most housing is not physically on base anymore, it’s off base and run by a private company. We live attached to an army base, but not physically on the base. We loved living off base in Virginia and we really like living “on base” here for different reasons. Our neighborhood here has lots of events and clubs for spouses here to join which is nice. I rarely can make it do to work but every time I can it’s a great way to meet other military families.

As an officer spouse, I find that mostly the senior officer spouses (and by that, I mostly mean the command spouses, meaning the XO/CO’s wives) are expected to volunteer a lot. Many officer spouses work full time. That being said, you are expected to be active in the wardroom (the group of officers at your command) by attending events, especially on sea duty. I have always volunteered in addition to working, but that is because I feel it’s important to give back, not because of any pressure from my husband’s job.

The surface warfare community is also very close. There are people my husband served with who are family to us now. When we moved this last time, our moving truck was driven a good friend from my husband’s first command because he just wanted to make sure his navy family made it safely to their new home. When we got married, lots of people traveled from all over the world to come. Whenever we travel, we rarely have to stay in hotels because there is almost always someone stationed nearby who offers us a place to stay. It’s nice! Whenever my husband meets fellow SWO’s, they always end up having lots to talk about. We have met so many wonderful people through our navy experience and we wouldn’t trade this opportunity for the world.

Hopefully that is helpful! This life isn’t for everyone, and the very large majority of SWO’s do not stay in past their initial commitment for various reasons. But if you can find a way to still enjoy life when he’s gone then it makes for a really neat way of life! It's good that you are asking questions. Too many people don't and then are very surprised/shocked/disappointed that life as a SWO isn't what they thought it would be.

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Permalink Reply by Anti M on July 28, 2014 at 9:50am

A lot has changed with Navy housing, so much of it is privatized now, and it is off base.  You can look up the different housing neighborhoods online, and get a feel for what housing is like these days, and even rough wait times.  There are even youtube videos of units.  Knowing what the housing is like near various duty stations may even help if he has a choice of orders.

Even though I had been an electronics tech in the Navy, I could not find work after I separated and became a dependent overseas.  I chose substitute teaching on base, and tutoring English off base.  Others find childcare to be an in demand employment choice which suits a stay at home mom.   We were enlisted, I was often under the impression that officer wives were expected to volunteer quite a bit.  That may have been the community overseas, so I hope you can find some spouses who can give you better insight on that.

Good luck.

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Permalink Reply by BunkerQB on July 28, 2014 at 12:34pm

lilmac, the nuke/sub communities are very tight. My son got married in HI a couple of years ago. One of his boatmates and his wife came all the way from Norfolk to attend the wedding. He is in the civilian world now and everywhere he goes, he encounters former/nuke officers because he is in hi-tech. Instant rapport. They stay in touch by email. In person when possible. Good luck to you and your family.

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