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Unfortunately My son sent us a text that he is out of the nuke program--His scheduled graduation date was 1/30 and because of a facility issue at Goose Creek where the ship wasn't working properly they delayed it until 3/30. He told us he was SO FAR behind, was given work to catch up plus the work that needs to be done every day. He struggled through A-School..barely passing. He struggled through Power School--barely passing...and Prototype did him in. His supervisors are saying he is a worthless piece of shit, that he isn't trying hard enough. Honestly, I think he has the brains to pass the tests to qualify to get into the nuke program..but isn't up to snuff cognitively to make it through the program. They aren't even talking about transferring him. Right now he is working in the administration office because they have nothing else for him and he is very likely to be discharged soon. This breaks his mom and my heart because he REALLY wanted to go in doing something with computer science and the recruiter was insistent the nuke program was so much better--everyone passes...etc...and a less than honorable discharge for not being cognitively able to make it through the program is just crap in my opinion.  He was told that they would put his name out there to a couple bases that he could possibly qualify for but, "if they don't want you...which they probably won't...who would?' then your shit out of luck. They told him he wasn't going to amount to crap as a civilian. He has busted his ass with hours..puts in the extra-required hours and then some. I understand being tough and realistic to motivate...but they are doing it to demean and get rid of him. I don't see how not being able to pass the nuke program equals being a miserable failure in life or not being able to even be a cook or a conventional sailor....makes no sense and as pro-military as I have always been...right now I'm questioning everything. 

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Replies to This Discussion

Thanks Aimee, 

I welcome your words knowing you have experienced similar difficulties with children this same age. It isn't fun to see anyone struggle--including your own children. 

I think some kind of middle ground between the Prodigal Son approach and a flat very quick deadline might be in order. The last thing I want to do is give him a deadline that he considers "impossible" --considering this is exactly what he thought the Navy did.  I do think he has the ability to get a place to live sooner than he has the ability to find a job. He should have quite a bit in savings/checking to put a couple months rent up front and still have money to live off of very modestly. I am not sure the comfort of our couch/home is the same motivation as the comfort of his own place knowing he has to find a job soon or his savings will run dry. I don't think I will even bring job or school up with him--if you don't want to find a job anytime soon--fine! If you refuse to work in fast food even though that might be the only job offer available--fine! If you want to wait a year or two to go to school--fine! But you have 15 days to find a place to live. 

My thinking is this--when you signed up for service in the military you gave an oath and commitment to do so for 6 years in an area that would lead to a very independent life and career. Mom and I were not going to hold your bedroom for you for 6 years "in case something didn't work out." at that point you would be 25 years old. We needed that room to launch our business--it's a home office studio for us. The couch is a sectional with no one section really being a straight couch comfortable to sleep on. We bought the new furniture piece as our Christmas present to each other--when we thought he was one month away from graduating prototype and knowing full well, that if he didn't graduate he would re-rate to another position in the Navy. 

I agree with you that if we give him 60 days, we would be having that exact same discussion you described...and with him having thousands of dollars less in savings--if any left, that could be used towards housing. He bought and paid off a car that is nicer than mine--(I have a 2001 Honda Accord with 120,000+ miles and engine and warning lights flashing the past two years) and for that I am proud of. I'm proud of his control of his money. He doesn't spend everything he makes--for someone his age, that is awesome. So I am thinking we will give him 15 days to find a place to live with no mention of job--that's his concern that doesn't effect us at all. But his living arrangements do effect us. He made the choice to ..pardon the pun..."go nuclear" on the Navy and his commanders knowing he would get kicked out and thinking he had a safety net back home...well--his safety net was as thick as a l5 day leave from the service. I don't consider this "tough love" either...I consider it a realistic, pragmatic approach. You relocate from one city to another--you leave your house you are renting and get another place to live. You lose your job, you get another one. Then any inconvenience of his choices are his--as he said, "When I realized that it was all a matter of picking my (bad) situation and I prefer free will over serving a cause I don't believe in" this is the consequences up close and real time. I tell myself it's not tough love--that it's just pragmatic...love isn't the question. The question is can you afford to rent an apartment the day you get home? The answer is yes. The question is are there available jobs in our market you can apply for and begin working in a realistic period of time--the answer is yes. The question is are you capable of working the different type of jobs available--the answer is Yes....so I don't see an issue giving him a 15 day deadline to find suitable housing. The job situation might take longer than that--but that is motivation to get out there and find it!

I certainly will return and let you all know how it all plays out once he returns home. I lurked around on this site more than I contributed but when needing to, you all rushed to provide answers or sources to turn to that was very helpful. Thank you and God bless you all and your sons and daughters who continue to serve our great nation and keep us safe and free.

Sounds like a great format, and I think you are spot on!

He made his commitments and he will be just fine!!

Meanwhile, mom and dad get to have their life as they should- best wishes and all of those good things- it's so much easier to handle the tough stuff with friends!!  

:)

Chuck - your approach/expectations sound reasonable and I don't think you are asking too much of him.  Hopefully when he gets home he'll sit down with you and open up about his experience in the Navy & what he feels he was expecting vs what actually happened. Thankfully he has money saved up so the time frame of moving shouldn't be an issue.  Keep us updated on the outcome.

Best wishes & NMH to your family. 

I believe the entitlement that today's youth seems to be afflicted with is a product of having too much too easily.  I really dread to envision what the world will be like in another 20 years.  In other words, don't be so hard on yourself wondering where you went wrong as a parent.  Kids these days have everything at their fingertips and they consider it normal.  Cell phones, video games, internet - all these luxuries are incredible.  My step-son also thought he was going to be writing software for video games forgetting one important requirement - the knowledge of how to do so.  He's finally on track working part time and going to college part time.  He doesn't pay rent but he is paying for his college.

I apologize for my negative rant about today's youth.  This wasn't the place for it.

Well...got the text message "I'm being discharged...a general discharge."   I asked how that can be after what the Commander Master Chief said that they do NOT separate....and he said, The reason for separation is misconduct. I am so disappointed...I feel he threw away the best thing going--at least if you aren't cut out for it...let them know it...be good and decent about it and earnestly ask for a re-rate to something else. I am beyond disappointed....and at this point it is NOT with the navy. So so so disappointed!

Sorry to hear that Chuck.  Unfortunately general discharge means he got Captain's Mast like I had mentioned earlier as a possibility and seen people discharged for it, and the items identified in the mast were not corrected.  Did you find out if it is general under honorable conditions, or is is other than honorable.   If under honorable conditions he will not get the GI bill but still would be eligible for many other veterans benefits.  If it is other than honorable he would not get any veterans benefits whatsoever from the government.

By the way "failure to train" is considered misconduct offense that is a valid reason for general discharge under honorable circumstances.  Being assigned work, including additional makeup work if you fall behind the rest of the class, and not completing the work is considered failure to train.  That's what I meant by the hammer can come down hard.

Again very sorry this happened.

He just told me he was being discharged...I asked what type and he said "general discharge". I asked what the reason was and he said for dereliction of duty due to willfully failing to fall behind in qualifications.  When searching around for types of discharge, I believe a general discharge is always "General (Under Honorable Conditions)"  Yes the dereliction of duty is considered "misconduct" but from what I was reading, a less than honorable discharge would not be labeled, "General". It would be clearly stated OTH (Other Than Honorable).

that should read willfully falling behind in qualifications.

Very unfortunate situation, sorry you have to go through this. Hope everything resolves as quickly as possible.

Well, after reading through everything, the only thing I think I can say that hasn't been pointed out, is that you, dad, are a real stand-up guy. Your transparency is inspiring. It is only when we are transparent about our concerns or issues, that we are open to receive insight.

You have opened up and shared very personal issues, and I want to commend you for that. You aren't afraid or ashamed to "stop and ask for directions" and I just wanted to say how impressive that is, and that I truly wish you the very best outcome through all of this.

Thanks for your willingness to become vulnerable through your sharing. It is personally inspiring to me in so many ways. I am glad that all responses were nonjudgmental (as they should be--you have no responsibility in this, believe that!) and hope that you felt that as well. Please keep us posted, I know everyone who posted is wishing you, your wife, and your son, well.

I think he will still eligible for the Pell Grant - please google it. Give him 12 months. He is just a kid. Give him as much financial support as you can afford. Life changes and throws at us unexpected challenges. Give him his room back. He needs to regroup - he won't be able to do that on his own. His comments are defensive. Forgive him. Unfortunate. He will be kicking himself soon but don't make it impossible for him to learn from this experience and find something in life that will be more fitting. 

Good luck. We are here if you need friends.

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